September 22, 2020 

Stock exchange listing


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 By fredmcain

05/24/2013  4:12AM


I thought I saw that go through yesterday on my Yahoo! finance page.

Since OSTO is such an extremely thinly traded security, it can have some really wild swings to it.

Unfortunately, I have come to believe that there are some brokerage firms out there that don't seem to understand what this mine is worth. The standing timber on the property and real estate alone is probably worth more than the current total capitalization of the Company! Nevermind that there might be between 5 and 20 BILLION dollars worth of gold buried under there!

Fred M. Cain
 By BobbyC

05/24/2013  2:11AM

I own stock in the company both as a registered holder and in a brokerage account. I have read with interest the messages regarding the purchase of company stock through a broker, so I decided to try. I placed a limit order for 2000 shares at $0.25 on May 23 around 11am and it filled that afternoon at $0.20. The broker I used was TD Ameritrade.
 By fredmcain

04/25/2013  9:36AM

Yes, I am wondering the same thing along with "CW". I got an e-mail response back from Charles Carlson of DRIP Investor fame, and if I understood him right, a broker should be able (not necessarily willing) but able to convert "street shares" to "shares of record". They would then be held by the transfer agent as CW suggests. I know this is true for major companies because I have between 15 and 20 stocks recorded in my own name and held be transfer agents. Some of these agents are more helpful than others. The American Stock Transfer & Trust Company is pretty good. I have had issues with Bank of New York/Mellon. Computershare is about in the middle of the two extremes.

What I don’t know is whether or not transfer agents would hold Pink Sheet shares. But I don’t know why not. What is the difference? Active shares are active shares or so it seem like it should be to me.

Surely the Original Sixteen To One Mine has a stock transfer agent, don’t you? It seems to me like you’d need that to record the change of ownership following a trade on the Mine’s board.

If somebody held X number of shares in street name in a brokerage account and had them converted to record shares in their own name, would those shares then be eligible for posting on the Mine’s board? I think they would be but I don’t know for sure. How can we find out?

Another thing of interest, if we can do this, we will actually be reducing the number of shares circulating in the so-called "grey market" by moving them over to shares of record. Would that be desirable? It might help cut the discrepancy between the grey market share price and our prices on the board. But please be advised that I’m still learning here so maybe I’m way off base.

Fred M. Cain
 By cw3343

04/25/2013  8:38AM

Mike - do you know if your transfer agent will let shareholders hold shares there, at the transfer agent?

For instance, the main transfer agent for most companies is Computershare, and people hold shares there. Reason I am asking is that some brokerages may not charge a fee to transfer the shares back to the transfer agent - then, later, maybe a certificate could be issued for a lot less than the $250-500 that brokerages charge.

I'm always looking for a loophole...

The days of certificates are numbered anyway - the DTCC lost 1.3 million stock/bond certificates as a result of hurricane Sandy. Some idiot decided they should be stored in a place under flood levels, and not waterproof - their own fault. Also, there were millions of certs lost in the World Trade Center. If there were any bearer bonds then that is a HUGE mess. So because of their mistakes, they are lobbying to eliminate certificates.
 By Michael Miller

04/24/2013  11:27AM

Fred, your post brought a sad smile to my face, especially the last paragraph. Bluejay, thanks for passing on your experiences asa retired member of an exchange. There are people who read our FORUM but do not participate. They, like you and me, share similar thoughts about the erosion of “the way it used to be”. I still believe that those who remember what a store bought tomato tasted like realize that our society is sliding down a slippery slope with a dark crevasse in view. Such a simple thing as a stock certificate representing ownership of one’s asset must seem insignificant to Americans. It isn’t. Increasing awareness may be difficult.

Today we are preparing for mailing the annual report, which includes updating the names, addresses and number of share outstanding. Believe me, keeping share ownership is the most important record for a public corporation to maintain. Our transfer agent recorded 18 transactions totaling 48,000 shares last year. Can you even imagine the record keeping required to maintain stock transaction with the volume on the national markets?

After price, volume is one of the most commonly quoted data points related to the stock markets. Reflecting the overall activity in a stock or market volume is the business of the market itself: the buying and selling of shares. As such, volume is an important indicator for traders in analyzing markets and planning strategy. Your confusion about a grey market at 10 to 20 cents with a bid well above those sales confuses everyone familiar with the Sixteen to One.

When public shares are held in street name, they are basically controlled by the depository company. They are combined with all the other shareholders. A paper entry is kept by the depository company: buy orders, sell orders and short sale orders. Daily volume is staggering. Daily average market volume is around 4 billion shares; however, volume has approached 8 billion. Wow!

My observations are that short sellers can bring a market down faster and more violently that the regular buy/sell investors. Whether the SEC monitors active short sellers that are required to “borrow” the stock in order to sell short is a question to ask market regulators. I also believe that important information is lost over time or ignored.
 By bluejay

04/24/2013  10:43AM

Our shares are tightly held, as a private company, with few ever being traded. Everyone, pretty much, knows each other and they are content just sitting on the shares. When there happens to be a selling interest and some naive broker enters it to the pink sheet market the order is scalped by taking it down hard. Finding a market maker in our shares is like searching in the night without a flashlight. I view the pink sheets as if it were like a pawn shop. I would use it if only all else failed.

Plus, the participants in the pink sheet organization routinely steal money on sell orders by buying below agency bids. The pink sheets gang are just high school punk types. You want to be frustrated deal with these losers.

Mike and Rae run a honest bid and offer book. The pink sheets offer very little, if any, liquidity to the the Original 16-1 market. The only thing the pink sheets do is cause investors pain in their quest for every cent they can steal.
 By fredmcain

04/24/2013  6:41AM

I am slowly coming to the sad realization that obtaining shares in a company which is not a HUGE corporation traded on the "Big Board" or Nasdaq can be quite a challenge. What is happening to our world?

A couple of weeks ago, I put in an offer on the Mine's board for 4,000 share at 50¢ a share. After a week and no one came forward, I called Rae Bell and raised it to 70¢. Still nothing.

At the same time this has been going on, I placed another order with my I.R.A. broker (Vanguard Brokerage Services) for an additional 2,500 shares with a limit price of 45¢ and nothing has happened there, either.

Bear in mind here that the last so-called "grey shares" that transacted went for 20¢, 24¢ and 10¢ respectively. But now I am unable to obtain these "grey" shares at 45 cents? How can that be?

It gets much worse, I’m afraid. I called a broker here in the Midwest (Edward Jones) who I’ve had some dealings with in the past. They have gotten stock certificates for me in the past so I could participate in direct stock purchase and dividend reinvestment plans but it had been a number of years since I tried to do that. (Something like six to ten years, I’m not sure anymore).

I was told they no longer mail certificates – period! So I asked if they would consider doing it for a special price and then I was told "I’m not sure but I can check for you and call you back. What security is it for?"

As soon as I mentioned "Pink Sheets" she cut me off. "We do NOT have ANYTHING to do with securities traded on the Pink Sheets". Huh? Say what? How can a well-known brokerage firm just flat out and out refuse to buy or sell Pink Sheet shares? I can’t believe this.

I also found this URL which does not look very encouraging to me: (Copy and paste that to your browser).

I have also been contacted off list by a fellow forum member who has made me a rather generous offer. If I would come up to his share quantity and price, he would swallow the $500 necessary to get me a certificate. Sheesh!! That is SO nice of him but I don’t believe it should be necessary for him to do that! $500 for a certificate? Come on! I’d bet Michael Miller would rightfully call that a "rip off" and if he did, he’d be right!

Maybe this is something we need to start writing to our Congressman about. The problem is going to be, will enough people in our country be concerned enough about this issue to take action and write? If too many people are complacent or unconcerned we might very well lose our post office. The same thing goes for stock certificates. Especially troubling is that the complete loss of stock certificates will affect by far fewer people than losing the post office. And if they don’t care about losing the post office....? I have actually had people at work tell me that they don’t give a hoot, ‘cause they don’t use the post office anymore anyhow!

This is how democracies and human rights are eroded and lost. One "little thing" at a time. So tragic.

Fred M. Cain
 By fredmcain

04/18/2013  4:32AM


Well, now, hang on a second. Are your shares recorded in your own name or in "street name"?

I have an offer open on the Mine's board for 4,000 shares at 50¢. It's been open for a week now and I have had no takers. I am seriously considering calling Rae Bell and raising my offer to 70¢.

I don't know if I can find the cash, though for all 5,000 shares.

You may contact me off list if you want at

Fred M. Cain
Topeka, Indiana mining fan.
 By greenhorn

04/17/2013  9:47AM

I have 5,000 shares I just listed for sale at 69 cents per share in my brokerage account. The first 5,000 shares worth of orders can have these shares at that price. Place the order through your broker and no one has to pay the obnoxious $500 fee to get a stock certificate issued.
 By cw3343

04/15/2013  3:43PM

Does not appear that Bank of The West sold any...
 By fredmcain

04/15/2013  11:22AM

Someone just sold another 600 shares for ten cents. Why? I bid 30¢ last week and currently have a bid out on the Mine's board for 50¢. Go figure.

Fred M. Cain
 By Michael Miller

04/09/2013  9:37AM

My thinking regarding computers, Internet and digital replacement of print parallel yours. Following is an e-mail I received today from a shareholder. He previously wrote that he was considering obtaining his shares held at Sprott Global (Rick Rule) in certificate form. The clearing firm said they charge between $300-700 for issuing certs, and that many firms just say No and won't do it at all! My reply: “I cannot justify the cost you quoted for a transfer agent . It is a simple process. They have become lazy and controlling.”

He wrote today, “Yes, the cost absolutely cannot be justified. It is not based on the service provided, but a penalty and disincentive to obtaining a certificate. The scarier part is that they said many brokerages say ‘No’ and won't do it at all! Wonder if that is true, and if so, is it legal? You can't take possession of an equity position but MUST leave it in control of a brokerage--in digital form no less?!”

You ask my thought on the elimination of the right to take ownership of proof of your corporate asset. It strengthens those professionals to manipulate market price and volume…pseudo naked shorts among other considerations. It threatens public welfare. It undermines small or thinly traded corporation. It invites white collar criminals to practice their trade (think pirates). It may also invite lawyers to play a new game of legislation.

In a Dwight Eisenhower speech he said, “I firmly believe that the army of persons who urge greater concentration of authority and greater dependence upon federal treasury are really more dangerous to our form of government than any external threat that can possibly be arrayed against us.” Not bad.

I have enjoyed reading the Huxley authors over the years.. Thomas said it succinctly. “Every great advance in natural knowledge has involved the rejection of authority.” I do not believe that our country has raised a crop of men and women capable of wisely rejecting the proposed elimination of stock certificates.
 By fredmcain

04/09/2013  4:55AM


Thanks again for your response and sharing your thoughts on this. You were right on clarifying my statement where I’d said that I wanted to buy shares directly from YOU. By "you" I meant through your plan, of course, not from you personally. After rereading what I'd written, I can well see that I did not word that very well.

I would like to say one more thing about certificates. According to a recent article in the Wall Street Journal, certificates are getting ready to go the way of the old-fashioned ticker tape machines. They will no longer even be an option. I'm not sure that is a good way to go.

You know, the Internet and computers have done some wonderful things for us. Without them I NEVER would've found the Original Sixteen To One Mine to begin with. But the Internet is also doing some stuff that I am not happy about. I don't treasure the idea of losing printed newspapers and magazines. Even the U.S. Postal Services is threatened. Stock certificates also fall into this category. I hate to see us burn our bridges behind us by eliminating this option altogether. What are your thoughts on this?

Unfortunately, I can’t see myself making it to California by this June. Besides, I didn't get my shares soon enough to make the date of record anyway. What I am really interested in above and beyond all else is the $600 mine tour. I hope that offer is still good.

Drifting off the topic at hand a bit here, what kind of transportation options are available between Colfax and Alleghany? When I come, I will be coming to California on the train and will probably get off in Colfax or Auburn.

I would also like to say that I have been going back and reading through the old posts in this thread as time allows. You are right, there is a lot of interesting stuff in there.

I'm so glad I found all this. I almost feel like I've found a gold mine! Ha, ha, ha, ha, that was bad; I know it!

Fred M. Cain
 By Michael Miller

04/08/2013  3:37PM

Congratulations with you purchase of shares last Friday. I have heard a variety of complaints from people with standing orders with a broker that never gets filled at any price. Vanguard Brokerage Service did you well.

Are you aware that share custodians loan shares to those shorting a market? I was told that a shareholder who does not take a certificate has the right to exclude his shares from the loan market. Don’t know if this holds true today

When stock players are long, they tend to hold shares when the market turns against the position longer than when short and the market goes against them. Shorts are usually covered quicker when under water that a long position heading negative. Nano second and the new mirco-nano second computer traders don’t behave with emotion like a human trader. I’m not suggesting that the Sixteen to One is a likely candidate for computer trades now or in the future.

I think reasons for owning a certificate of ownership are more compelling today than when I first acquired a certificate as a ten year old. It is doubtful that all responsible for accounting today’s market volume have 100% accuracy. But you are right that the brokerage business continues to discount the value of ownership even to the point of seeking federal regulation against the issuance of a title. The actual cost is negligible to execute this service or request.

Fred, remember, the Company is not selling stock. Your last paragraph regarding getting some certificate shares directly from me needs clarification. It isn’t going to happen but it is easy. Click on Stock (eight down of the index on the left and place a bid. Follow the “Requirements For Buyers”. This is a service so read the section on ordering certificates as well. Our shareholder annual meeting is on June 15, 2013, in Alleghany. Please join the day. Also a shareholder will display his personal gold collection that Saturday and the following Sunday at the Underground Gold Miners Museum.

Our last dividend was 1995. We also established a direct purchase program for shareholders of record. Our next dividend will be related to an in-kind value of gold. There are benefits to the company and the shareholder for doing this. Vanguard should investigate Original Sixteen to One Mine, Inc. I do not know of a better long term gold mining company to risk ones precious investment capital.

By the way, you will get some pleasure from hanging your share certificate on view. I know right where all of mine are. I bought my first shares from my father in 1975.
 By fredmcain

04/08/2013  6:40AM

Dear Michael and "CW",

As a person with a strong fascination for both underground mining and investing, I would like to offer a few thoughts here.

First of all, why would someone be so stupid to sell 8,100 shares at 25 cents? Well, actually, they MIGHT'VE been really stupid but not necessarily so. Sometimes people intentionally sell things at a loss so they can record a "capital loss" in order to offset expected capital gains in other areas thus reducing their overall tax bill. These shares might've even been held by a "micro cap" mutual fund that dumped them to lock in a capital loss. It is quite possible that the tax savings in this case matched or exceeded the loss they incurred on the mining shares – but, of course, I don't know that's what happened, it's just a theory – that's all.

This theory might also help explain why some idiot sold his shares for less than a penny a while back. That guy might've wanted to make his loss look as big as possible. His actions clearly hurt the other long-term shareholders but he was looking out for Number One, that's all.

The next day (April 5th), I called my broker (Vanguard Brokerage Services) and placed an offer for 1,500 shares at 30 cents. I got 'em at 24 cents!

So, I guess MY question is why would anybody pay 89¢ for something when it can be had for 30¢, never mind 24¢?! Beats the heck outta me.

CW raised the issue of certificates. From what I understand, in today's world there really aren't too many compelling reasons (for the most part) to get a certificate in the first place. Shares held by a brokerage firm in "street name" for the benefit of their clients are no riskier than shares recorded in a person’s own name. Furthermore, once a shareholder takes possession of certificate shares, they can be awkward to ever sell again because the first thing you have to do is find a broker who can convert them back into street name shares then sell them on the open market. There might also be a fee for that in addition to the commission on the trade itself. Certificates can also be lost, stolen or accidently destroyed in a fire or by some other means. Getting them replaced can be a real hassle.

However, having said all that, I also believe there are two reasons that I might want a certificate.

One is to participate in a "Direct Stock Purchase and Dividend Reinvestment Plan" or "DRIP" on shares purchased *DIRECTLY* from the company. Most, if not all, DRIPs require that the shares are recorded in your own name and I do participate in a few of those.

The second reason for wanting a certificate is simply a matter of pride. Since the mine has no DRIP, or even a dividend as far as I know, then my only rationale for wanting a certificate is the second reason. I might just like to have the certificate in my possession, that’s all. Instead of having a piece of quartz with gold specks in it, I’d rather have a certificate to show – pride, that’s all.

I would also like to relate one really amusing thing here. When I bought my brokerage shares on Friday, the correspondent at Vanguard acted like she didn’t want to do it. She did everything she could to dissuade me. "This stock hasn't traded in a long time", she told me to which I countered, "That's right, since December 5th to be exact". Then, "Do you realize that once you get these shares, you might never be able to sell them or at the very least have a very hard time selling them?"

And then she went on, "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah", I can’t even remember all the things she said.

But knowing that Vanguard is a champion of long-term investing and taking the long-term view, I finally stopped her and said, "Look, this mine has been in nearly continuous operation since 1896, so what is the problem here?" That kinda stopped her dead in her tracks!

I would like to close by saying that I genuinely want to own a small piece of this mine. I now have 1,500 shares in my IRA but I am not through. I want to try getting some certificate shares directly from you too if you are open to that idea. I am also really looking forward to coming to California to see the mine someday but I don’t know when that will be. I think it would be an absolute gas to enter the mine with a pick and shovel and help load a few cars if you would let me do that. That would certainly be a most wonderful experience which I would never forget. I might be terrified of heights but I am absolutely not claustrophobic in any way. Shoot!!!! I kinda wish I’d gone into mining now! Oh well, maybe in my next life:)

Fred M. Cain
 By Michael Miller

04/06/2013  10:10AM

Yesterday, I was underground with engineers testing a new GPR device and just saw the entries below. I have no idea who sold or bought the 8,100 shares on April 4. It is puzzling. Why were they so stupid! All shareholders have received letters that report the stock exchange format on our web site.

Let’s check the numbers. Total shares (8,100) exchanged via a stock broker = $2,485. Listed sellers on company exchange = 2,150 at $.89 and 5,950 at $1.00 or $7,863.50. Various excuses can be offered: lazy stock brokers, dishonest stock brokers,(any professional has an obligation to effect the best trade for their customers); lazy or dishonest estate lawyers (same professional obligation); false trades to show either volume or “market price” ( below market price reality); or perhaps you have another idea.

Now that more new people have discovered the Sixteen to One mine,.a repeat of a well-publicized facts are worth repeating. Original Sixteen to One Mine, Inc. is not selling any stock to raise capital. It never has launched a public stock offering in its 100 year history. It will not consider offering its treasurer stock to raise money until two events occur: the need for major capital improvement/assets and an honest recognition of its share value.

So, who, how and why did 8,100 shares trade on April 4 at a loss of over 300% to the sellers?
 By cw3343

04/05/2013  8:25PM

I am not recommending anything here - but if you buy some shares in a non-IRA account, see if they will let you take delivery (issue a certificate), if they do not charge too much.
 By fredmcain

04/05/2013  4:14AM

Yes, there were. I contacted my broker where I have my IRA (Vanguard) and tried to buy some shares but was told they couldn't do it because there had been no recent activity and the security "was not in their system" what ever that meant.

So, I was told to "call back tomorrow". We'll see what happens today. I only plan to get a few hundred shares right now but after I get my hands on some additional cash, I intend to contact the mine directly and get a few thousand.

Gotta love it!

Fred M. Cain,
Topeka, Indiana
 By cw3343

04/04/2013  1:04PM

Today there were some trades, for what it's worth...

04/04/1303:42 PM 0.2500 400
04/04/1301:06 PM 0.2500 1,000
04/04/1301:01 PM 0.3000 1,700
04/04/1311:12 AM 0.2500 5,000
 By fredmcain

04/02/2013  5:32AM

Oh, Michael, wow! That's an awful lot of pages to try and read through! Are there any you can quote or steer me to first that would at least clear up most of my confusion?

I would like to say that I am probably going to do this. I realize that there is always a certain amount of risk to any stock investment but this one would be a really fun stock to own.

Fred M. Cain

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