November 14, 2018 
 Wednesday 
 
 

Forum
Topic:
Stock exchange listing

       

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 By greenhorn

04/17/2013  9:47AM

I have 5,000 shares I just listed for sale at 69 cents per share in my brokerage account. The first 5,000 shares worth of orders can have these shares at that price. Place the order through your broker and no one has to pay the obnoxious $500 fee to get a stock certificate issued.
 By cw3343

04/15/2013  3:43PM

Does not appear that Bank of The West sold any...


http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/59951/000005995113000004/a13f032013.txt
 By fredmcain

04/15/2013  11:22AM

Someone just sold another 600 shares for ten cents. Why? I bid 30¢ last week and currently have a bid out on the Mine's board for 50¢. Go figure.

Regards,
Fred M. Cain
 By Michael Miller

04/09/2013  9:37AM

Fred,
My thinking regarding computers, Internet and digital replacement of print parallel yours. Following is an e-mail I received today from a shareholder. He previously wrote that he was considering obtaining his shares held at Sprott Global (Rick Rule) in certificate form. The clearing firm said they charge between $300-700 for issuing certs, and that many firms just say No and won't do it at all! My reply: “I cannot justify the cost you quoted for a transfer agent . It is a simple process. They have become lazy and controlling.”

He wrote today, “Yes, the cost absolutely cannot be justified. It is not based on the service provided, but a penalty and disincentive to obtaining a certificate. The scarier part is that they said many brokerages say ‘No’ and won't do it at all! Wonder if that is true, and if so, is it legal? You can't take possession of an equity position but MUST leave it in control of a brokerage--in digital form no less?!”

You ask my thought on the elimination of the right to take ownership of proof of your corporate asset. It strengthens those professionals to manipulate market price and volume…pseudo naked shorts among other considerations. It threatens public welfare. It undermines small or thinly traded corporation. It invites white collar criminals to practice their trade (think pirates). It may also invite lawyers to play a new game of legislation.

In a Dwight Eisenhower speech he said, “I firmly believe that the army of persons who urge greater concentration of authority and greater dependence upon federal treasury are really more dangerous to our form of government than any external threat that can possibly be arrayed against us.” Not bad.

I have enjoyed reading the Huxley authors over the years.. Thomas said it succinctly. “Every great advance in natural knowledge has involved the rejection of authority.” I do not believe that our country has raised a crop of men and women capable of wisely rejecting the proposed elimination of stock certificates.
 By fredmcain

04/09/2013  4:55AM

Michael,

Thanks again for your response and sharing your thoughts on this. You were right on clarifying my statement where I’d said that I wanted to buy shares directly from YOU. By "you" I meant through your plan, of course, not from you personally. After rereading what I'd written, I can well see that I did not word that very well.

I would like to say one more thing about certificates. According to a recent article in the Wall Street Journal, certificates are getting ready to go the way of the old-fashioned ticker tape machines. They will no longer even be an option. I'm not sure that is a good way to go.

You know, the Internet and computers have done some wonderful things for us. Without them I NEVER would've found the Original Sixteen To One Mine to begin with. But the Internet is also doing some stuff that I am not happy about. I don't treasure the idea of losing printed newspapers and magazines. Even the U.S. Postal Services is threatened. Stock certificates also fall into this category. I hate to see us burn our bridges behind us by eliminating this option altogether. What are your thoughts on this?

Unfortunately, I can’t see myself making it to California by this June. Besides, I didn't get my shares soon enough to make the date of record anyway. What I am really interested in above and beyond all else is the $600 mine tour. I hope that offer is still good.

Drifting off the topic at hand a bit here, what kind of transportation options are available between Colfax and Alleghany? When I come, I will be coming to California on the train and will probably get off in Colfax or Auburn.

I would also like to say that I have been going back and reading through the old posts in this thread as time allows. You are right, there is a lot of interesting stuff in there.

I'm so glad I found all this. I almost feel like I've found a gold mine! Ha, ha, ha, ha, that was bad; I know it!

Regards,
Fred M. Cain
 By Michael Miller

04/08/2013  3:37PM

Congratulations with you purchase of shares last Friday. I have heard a variety of complaints from people with standing orders with a broker that never gets filled at any price. Vanguard Brokerage Service did you well.

Are you aware that share custodians loan shares to those shorting a market? I was told that a shareholder who does not take a certificate has the right to exclude his shares from the loan market. Don’t know if this holds true today

When stock players are long, they tend to hold shares when the market turns against the position longer than when short and the market goes against them. Shorts are usually covered quicker when under water that a long position heading negative. Nano second and the new mirco-nano second computer traders don’t behave with emotion like a human trader. I’m not suggesting that the Sixteen to One is a likely candidate for computer trades now or in the future.

I think reasons for owning a certificate of ownership are more compelling today than when I first acquired a certificate as a ten year old. It is doubtful that all responsible for accounting today’s market volume have 100% accuracy. But you are right that the brokerage business continues to discount the value of ownership even to the point of seeking federal regulation against the issuance of a title. The actual cost is negligible to execute this service or request.

Fred, remember, the Company is not selling stock. Your last paragraph regarding getting some certificate shares directly from me needs clarification. It isn’t going to happen but it is easy. Click on Stock (eight down of the index on the left and place a bid. Follow the “Requirements For Buyers”. This is a service so read the section on ordering certificates as well. Our shareholder annual meeting is on June 15, 2013, in Alleghany. Please join the day. Also a shareholder will display his personal gold collection that Saturday and the following Sunday at the Underground Gold Miners Museum.

Our last dividend was 1995. We also established a direct purchase program for shareholders of record. Our next dividend will be related to an in-kind value of gold. There are benefits to the company and the shareholder for doing this. Vanguard should investigate Original Sixteen to One Mine, Inc. I do not know of a better long term gold mining company to risk ones precious investment capital.

By the way, you will get some pleasure from hanging your share certificate on view. I know right where all of mine are. I bought my first shares from my father in 1975.
 By fredmcain

04/08/2013  6:40AM

Dear Michael and "CW",

As a person with a strong fascination for both underground mining and investing, I would like to offer a few thoughts here.

First of all, why would someone be so stupid to sell 8,100 shares at 25 cents? Well, actually, they MIGHT'VE been really stupid but not necessarily so. Sometimes people intentionally sell things at a loss so they can record a "capital loss" in order to offset expected capital gains in other areas thus reducing their overall tax bill. These shares might've even been held by a "micro cap" mutual fund that dumped them to lock in a capital loss. It is quite possible that the tax savings in this case matched or exceeded the loss they incurred on the mining shares – but, of course, I don't know that's what happened, it's just a theory – that's all.

This theory might also help explain why some idiot sold his shares for less than a penny a while back. That guy might've wanted to make his loss look as big as possible. His actions clearly hurt the other long-term shareholders but he was looking out for Number One, that's all.

The next day (April 5th), I called my broker (Vanguard Brokerage Services) and placed an offer for 1,500 shares at 30 cents. I got 'em at 24 cents!

So, I guess MY question is why would anybody pay 89¢ for something when it can be had for 30¢, never mind 24¢?! Beats the heck outta me.

CW raised the issue of certificates. From what I understand, in today's world there really aren't too many compelling reasons (for the most part) to get a certificate in the first place. Shares held by a brokerage firm in "street name" for the benefit of their clients are no riskier than shares recorded in a person’s own name. Furthermore, once a shareholder takes possession of certificate shares, they can be awkward to ever sell again because the first thing you have to do is find a broker who can convert them back into street name shares then sell them on the open market. There might also be a fee for that in addition to the commission on the trade itself. Certificates can also be lost, stolen or accidently destroyed in a fire or by some other means. Getting them replaced can be a real hassle.

However, having said all that, I also believe there are two reasons that I might want a certificate.

One is to participate in a "Direct Stock Purchase and Dividend Reinvestment Plan" or "DRIP" on shares purchased *DIRECTLY* from the company. Most, if not all, DRIPs require that the shares are recorded in your own name and I do participate in a few of those.

The second reason for wanting a certificate is simply a matter of pride. Since the mine has no DRIP, or even a dividend as far as I know, then my only rationale for wanting a certificate is the second reason. I might just like to have the certificate in my possession, that’s all. Instead of having a piece of quartz with gold specks in it, I’d rather have a certificate to show – pride, that’s all.

I would also like to relate one really amusing thing here. When I bought my brokerage shares on Friday, the correspondent at Vanguard acted like she didn’t want to do it. She did everything she could to dissuade me. "This stock hasn't traded in a long time", she told me to which I countered, "That's right, since December 5th to be exact". Then, "Do you realize that once you get these shares, you might never be able to sell them or at the very least have a very hard time selling them?"

And then she went on, "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah", I can’t even remember all the things she said.

But knowing that Vanguard is a champion of long-term investing and taking the long-term view, I finally stopped her and said, "Look, this mine has been in nearly continuous operation since 1896, so what is the problem here?" That kinda stopped her dead in her tracks!

I would like to close by saying that I genuinely want to own a small piece of this mine. I now have 1,500 shares in my IRA but I am not through. I want to try getting some certificate shares directly from you too if you are open to that idea. I am also really looking forward to coming to California to see the mine someday but I don’t know when that will be. I think it would be an absolute gas to enter the mine with a pick and shovel and help load a few cars if you would let me do that. That would certainly be a most wonderful experience which I would never forget. I might be terrified of heights but I am absolutely not claustrophobic in any way. Shoot!!!! I kinda wish I’d gone into mining now! Oh well, maybe in my next life:)

Regards,
Fred M. Cain
 By Michael Miller

04/06/2013  10:10AM

Yesterday, I was underground with engineers testing a new GPR device and just saw the entries below. I have no idea who sold or bought the 8,100 shares on April 4. It is puzzling. Why were they so stupid! All shareholders have received letters that report the stock exchange format on our web site.

Let’s check the numbers. Total shares (8,100) exchanged via a stock broker = $2,485. Listed sellers on company exchange = 2,150 at $.89 and 5,950 at $1.00 or $7,863.50. Various excuses can be offered: lazy stock brokers, dishonest stock brokers,(any professional has an obligation to effect the best trade for their customers); lazy or dishonest estate lawyers (same professional obligation); false trades to show either volume or “market price” ( below market price reality); or perhaps you have another idea.

Now that more new people have discovered the Sixteen to One mine,.a repeat of a well-publicized facts are worth repeating. Original Sixteen to One Mine, Inc. is not selling any stock to raise capital. It never has launched a public stock offering in its 100 year history. It will not consider offering its treasurer stock to raise money until two events occur: the need for major capital improvement/assets and an honest recognition of its share value.

So, who, how and why did 8,100 shares trade on April 4 at a loss of over 300% to the sellers?
 By cw3343

04/05/2013  8:25PM

I am not recommending anything here - but if you buy some shares in a non-IRA account, see if they will let you take delivery (issue a certificate), if they do not charge too much.
 By fredmcain

04/05/2013  4:14AM

Yes, there were. I contacted my broker where I have my IRA (Vanguard) and tried to buy some shares but was told they couldn't do it because there had been no recent activity and the security "was not in their system" what ever that meant.

So, I was told to "call back tomorrow". We'll see what happens today. I only plan to get a few hundred shares right now but after I get my hands on some additional cash, I intend to contact the mine directly and get a few thousand.

Gotta love it!

Regards,
Fred M. Cain,
Topeka, Indiana
 By cw3343

04/04/2013  1:04PM

Today there were some trades, for what it's worth...

DATE TIME PRICE VOLUME
04/04/1303:42 PM 0.2500 400
04/04/1301:06 PM 0.2500 1,000
04/04/1301:01 PM 0.3000 1,700
04/04/1311:12 AM 0.2500 5,000
 By fredmcain

04/02/2013  5:32AM

Oh, Michael, wow! That's an awful lot of pages to try and read through! Are there any you can quote or steer me to first that would at least clear up most of my confusion?

I would like to say that I am probably going to do this. I realize that there is always a certain amount of risk to any stock investment but this one would be a really fun stock to own.

Regards,
Fred M. Cain
 By Michael Miller

04/01/2013  2:50PM

Let’s take a breath and review the stock market and marketing of Original Sixteen to One Mine, Inc. Help will be found there.

I just entered FORUM topic “Stock exchange listing”, which I have not done in a while. Please do so after reading this entry. The topic began May 2002 (page #9). Read from early dates forward to page #1. Your answers and more are there. It is time well spent. Shortly this topic, “buying a share” will be moved to Stock exchange in order to keep our FORUM manageable as a custodian of information, useful information in friendly deployment.

Currently, there are no buyers (bidders) on the STOCK topic. Anyone may contact the company and place a bid (look at the instructions on the web site under (Stock). The Company does not charge a commission for maintaining this public book.

Many would like to know who the sellers are because the pink or gray markets deal with brokers, custodians (transfer agents) or those who hold their shares in street name. Many of our shareholders have asked the seller to provide a share certificate. I personally sign each share certificate, which goes to our transfer agent to fulfill a buy/sell transaction. There is no safer way to hold ownership in a public company.

After you have reviewed the Stock exchange listing topic and have unanswered questions, please let the FORUM know. There are sophisticated investors with shares and may provide you with expanded insight to the colorful markets.
 By fredmcain

04/01/2013  1:30PM

Scoop,

I don't understand this. The website shows a pending trade of $0.89 and yet OSTO shares are trading on the "Pink Sheets" for $0.20 each. How can that be? Is that the same company or a different company? Or, is it perhaps the same company but a different class of shares?

That sounds to me like a big spread.

Regards,
Fred M. Cain,
Topeka, IN
 By fredmcain

04/01/2013  5:18AM

Is it possible to buy shares in the mine on an open exchange through a broker? The reason I'd want to do that is because I'd like to add the stock to my IRA if that's possible.
 By SCOOP

03/29/2013  10:23AM

Why would you not have it? The company has existed since 1911. You are responsible for your assets. If you bought it from a broker, ask your broker.
 By nathanmoose319

03/28/2013  9:25PM

If I had bought a share through middle school years ago. Would I still have it?
 By Michael Miller

02/26/2013  10:01AM

Yes! A class action lawsuit. You own a hard asset... a gold mine. A transfer should cost what is on our stock topic, about $25. The book work could cost ten to fifteen minutes and then a process of acceptable notification. The investment community knows that the volume of transactions created an impossible accounting nightmare. I believe that if everyone asked for a stock certificate for even the DOW stocks, the shortage of shares would be as high as 40%. Does that make American stockholders comfortable?

Go ahead and ask for your shares and let me us know the results. In the good old days, brokerage houses did this at no charge.
 By RyanBaum

02/26/2013  9:17AM

Brokerage fims have now moved to charging a substantial fee for issuing a certificate--often now as much as $500. Any advice on other means to take delivery of shares currently held in street name?
 By bluejay

11/27/2012  8:26PM

Brokerage firms today won't let you sell a security unless it is already in their possession. Not like the old days when you had five days to bring in the certificate to the broker. These rules were changed so they could hold your assets for as long as possible for their own interests.

The reasons no shares have been transferred is for a couple of reasons: either the firm that acted as the sellers broker had the shares in street name and bought them for themselves or the trades were a naked short sale and there are no shares behind the sale to transfer.

What surprises me is that the pawn shop atmosphere of the grey market didn't trade them at a fraction of a penny.

I know Mike doesn't like this idea but if it were for the word "gold" in our corporate name the shares would probably trade higher in New York.

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