September 18, 2020 

Stock exchange listing


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 By Michael Miller

01/13/2016  3:33PM


If you or anyone you know with shares in an IRA or retirement plan account, consider taking a distribution now. You can move shares in kind, from IRA to taxable account, and the distribution amount (or taxable income) is the value of the shares on the day they are distributed. With the gray market sales at last tradesAt $0, right now is the perfect opportunity for that. If shares go up to $5 later (or $25) then it'd be capital gains in a taxable account, but if taken from IRA at that value, is considered income, which for a lot of folks is taxed higher than capital gains.
 By cw3343

01/20/2015  12:57PM

I believe that will only happen if they have a bad address/returned mail for you.
 By fredmcain

01/12/2015  9:25AM

Michael Miller & Group,

I’ve got a good one for you. I have learned that if you have an account with a stock transfer agent and there has been no “activity” on your account for three years, the state can regard your account as “abandoned” and seize your funds as “unclaimed property” AFTER THREE YEARS ! Can you believe this?

I was shocked to say the least. This was reported last month in “DRIP Investor”, a financial newsletter that I subscribe to. I sent an e-mail to the editor this morning about this (and I will copy and paste that below) but a big question I have is whether or not the state can still do this if you hold a physical certificate. I doubt it. This whole thing about getting away from certificates “for our own protection” is beginning to make sense now.
The broker at Penn Trade told me over the telephone that the big push to do away with certificates is coming from the GOVERNMENT *NOT* from the brokers!

This whole thing is starting to look very, very suspicious to me. Does the government want to phase out certs to make it more expedient to seize people’s assets? Hey, I don’t want to go getting paranoid but you really have to wonder.

I wrote this to DRIP Investor:
Dear Chuck,
I read with horror in the January issue of DRIP Investor about the way that it is possible for the State to seize someone’s assets on the grounds that they are abandoned or unclaimed property.
I, too, received a letter like that from one of my transfer agents that manages my CSX Drip account. The contact on the phone told me that the state can consider them “unclaimed property” after as little as three years. Huh? Say what?
Here we have had it hammered into us for years that the safest way to invest in stocks is for the long term. “Put your money in there and forget it”. “Tune out the noise”. But now the state can seize your assets after as little as three years of “no activity”?
I strongly believe that the constitutionality of this is very shaky at best. Someone – anyone – who has their assets seized like that should file suit on the grounds of an unconstitutional “government taking” of private property.
I have a couple of very serious questions about this. Number one, how can the state consider an account to be “abandoned” when the owner has been dutifully paying taxes on the dividend distributions year after year after year? Than make no sense whatsoever.
A second question I have, what about a case where the owner actually physically holds the stock certificate? Can the state seize those assets too? Or, are certificates more difficult for them to seize? If so, maybe it’s high time to take a second look at certificates.
Somebody somewhere really needs to speak out about this issue. If the state can seize assets after three years, what the hell? Why not make it one year? Six months? Is anybody safe?
Sometimes I can’t help but wonder if we Americans are really so far behind Vladimir Putin’s Russia. This unclaimed property law is beyond belief.
What is happening to us?
His response:
Hi Fred . . . thanks for the note. You raise some interesting questions (especially the one about stock certificates) which I quite frankly don’t know the answer to. It seems if you have stock certificates, you have ownership that can’t be taken away, but I suppose I don’t know that for certain. Let me see if I can get some answers for you on this.
Chuck Carlson, CFA
 By gerald

11/10/2014  4:19AM

i recently sold shares at $0.50 at a well known broker..
 By fredmcain

10/27/2014  5:04AM


I think I might know why. One guess is that who ever sold their shares for 42 cents needed to raise some cash very badly and was either unable or unwilling to wait and see if the share price rebounds further. As to why someone would buy them at that price, they didn't get such a bad deal, either.

I bought my last "grey" shares for around 20 cents, I think it was, but I am going to get absolutely "soaked" on the certificate so it's probably a "wash".

I realize that these share prices must seem pretty paltry to some who have owned Sixteen To One for many years. But, compared with what some of these other small mining companiies are currently trading for, we're actually not doing all that bad. Sutter Gold? North Bay Resources? Emgold? Western Pacific Resources? SHEESH ! The list gets longer.

So, I guess I'm optimistic right now and growing more so all the time.

Of course, the Water Board might end up throwing a monkey wrench in the machinery but I'm hoping and praying not.

Fred M. Cain
 By Michael Miller

10/24/2014  4:39PM

If you check the STOCK topic on the FORUM, 10,000 shares traded at $.42 yesterday. As to a question of why, I don't know because I don't know why anyone would sell shares at the prices we have seen over the past years.

I'll have time next week to flesh out the water tentative discharge order.
 By fredmcain

10/24/2014  9:45AM

Yesterday our so-called "grey" shares closed at 42 cents and appear to have even briefly traded at around 55 cents.

This is the highest they've been in about a year. I like to think this is a sign that something's going right.

Fred M. Cain
 By Michael Miller

10/22/2014  8:53AM

What is the promotional history of all those “penny gold stocks”? How did they manage to generate stock interest in the past? Is that game over? Are they dead?

The past four years or more were gloomy for gold mining stock players. The public basically fled the market. The sizzle, the predictions of economic gloom and doom or war moved no one. The promotion game is not over. It flows and ebbs. Lately it is showing signs of excitement. Hold your breath about some of the news entering publications.
Stock promotion companies hire a press firm, standard operating procedure. The pattern of press releases is predictable. Companies that have no revenue from production have significant expenses on their income statements under public relations. It is big and important. (as an aside we abstain).
What is happening inside the gold mining company for the promoter’s news? Yesterday, there was an important news release about a company with a property in Peru. It got a second ball mill and it just arrived. It would be ‘commissioned’, whatever that means, in several months. Production is right around the corner. Look how great we are.

Today, another company I had some news. A press release and lengthy announcement from the Investor Relations “department hit the publication networks: “the company announced that it has authorized three new studies to enhance the value of its 100% owned gold project” in eastern Oregon. The release goes on for 6 paragraphs. Wow!

For anyone following the gold corporate market place, the small cap gold mining and natural resource public companies need and want your scrutiny. This industry is under financed with some justification regarding its creditability. I have much information in my files about public companies that came to the Alleghany Mining district and screwed their investors. That taste does not leave those speculators. Others right now sit on the side with a thought that taking a risk in a small cap gold mine may be worth considering. Sadly or maybe fortunately these news operating, corporate predators play their game in other sectors as well: the medical electronic, technical industries. For reasons I cannot explain, people give them a pass. Gold is different. I’m not sure why but if you have some ideas, enlighten us. I offer one explanation. Gold mining has too many unfamiliar nuances. It is not a quick study. Each mine and each operator runs with the wolves. Its language can be confusing and distorted.
 By fredmcain

10/13/2014  4:26AM


"Noticed another block trade go through the other day, at $0.20 - that is two in the last month or so..."

Huh !!! Imagine that ! Someone's buying OSTO.

Fred M. Cain
 By cw3343

10/10/2014  4:44PM

I would take dividends in gold, if given a choice. It would generate some wide interest, I think, as no other companies are doing that.

Noticed another block trade go through the other day, at $0.20 - that is two in the last month or so...
 By Michael Miller

10/07/2014  3:24PM

Well, well, well. It is not 6:21am in Alleghany right now. It is 3:23pm. With the problems we were experiencing with our internet server, we are now on Eastern time, as in New York. We just noticed this and will seek a repair. Thanks.
 By Michael Miller

10/07/2014  3:21PM

I agree with the problem cited below. The solution meets requirements for a "pro rata in kind dividend". Another separate entity (not our company) has agreed to settle all unwanted gold with a cash payment. Even though people with small share ownership fit into the pro rata requirement, it is lawfully possible to declare a dividend in gold as done by Ranchers in silver years ago.

While an in kind dividend may sound rather outlandish, it appeals to many I have met. All this is speculation at the moment; however, it has been a serious consideration in the past. Your other points are well received. The main requirement is producing enough gold to pay debt, fund long term exploration plans and return a liquid stock market. Impossible at the Sixteen to One?? No. A sure thing?? No.
 By RyanBaum

10/07/2014  11:35AM

Cart before the Horse

While this debate is interesting, it puts the cart before the horse since we first need to figure out how to get past the liquidity constraints our company currently faces.

If we ever did reach a point of producing enough gold to pay off debts, build adequate liquidity for future development and have excess for shareholder distribution, cash dividends would be more practical to shareholders than a gold dividend. We could not logistically distribute physical gold to all shareholders in per share amounts so it would need to take the form of gold placed with a depository firm and only paper receipts provided as a dividend. Shareholders would probably prefer cash so that they could decide what form of reinvestment they want—more shares, physical gold, etc.
 By Michael Miller

08/16/2014  6:24PM

Some really experienced people have tried to figure it out. You may not know this but a driving force behind me is issuing gold dividends. It can be done in our corporation because of the shareholder make up and share outstanding.

In 1995 our new detection technology and talented crew filled the safe deposits vaults of two banks in Grass Valley. My board of directors authorized my long held wish to start a dividend program. This Company has a history of dividends unequaled by any American gold mining company. The owners were handsomely repaid for their loyalty and financial/ management. How great it must have been to see those checks arriving all during the depression. I heard many stories from shareholders as I canvased California for proxies to redirect a stagnate board (1975-83).

The dividend caused us to establish a background on how to accomplish the deed. It is like most challenging things: the first time is usually the hardest. The paper work for a gold dividend will be a minor adjustment from a cash payment. The implications for cash vs gold are major, however, and still one of my burning desires.

It will be revealing when the holders of shares in street name are sought and their addresses, when the board of directors authorizes another dividend, this time from our inventory. The legal guideline the Company will follow will be the Record of Shareholders that have been meticulously maintained for over 100 years.

Perhaps then we all will have the answer to the question, What is going on with this odd grey market?
 By fredmcain

08/15/2014  12:46PM

During the course of the last year and a half or so, I have been in the process of buying shares on the so-called "grey market" and personal finances have allowed. I bought some in my tax-sheltered IRA at Vanguard and more recently I have been trying to buy some through PennTrade - with the intention of eventually getting a certificate for those.

What I have noticed is that during the last six months or so this is getting harder and harder to do. It seems they just no longer trade and on those rare occasions where they do trade, someone else gets them.

There have been several instances where shares changed hands for a price that was nearly HALF of what I was offering and yet they were sold to the buyer at the lower price. Go figure.

Fred M. Cain
 By cw3343

05/20/2014  9:25AM

Re: your last sentence below.
Not all stocks that trade on the OTC market are shams, or trade in shady illiquid back room deals.

Many large multi-nationals have de-listed from the NYSE and now trade OTC, such as Siemens, Nestle, Hitachi, Deutsche Telecom, etc.
(this not an endorsement of any of those names, and I have no positions - just using them as an example)
 By fredmcain

05/16/2014  4:25AM


Most interesting. I did not know that stocks were still being traded that way. That might be why I'm having trouble. Maybe no one at Vanguard is watching this or "picking up the phone" like you said.

Also, I had some one tell me that OSTO does not participate in the electronic "DRS" whatever that means. Not sure if that's a related issue or not.

All this leads me to believe that you should buy your OSTO shares while you can 'cause the day might be at hand when this is going to get cut off.

I had one broker tell me that our current government "will have no rest until they succeed in completely shutting down the OTC market". I hope it doesn't come to that but.....
 By cw3343

05/15/2014  3:09PM

The first paragraph in the post below sums it up fairly accurately. The term pink sheets is derived from the pink booklet that used to get distributed in the old school days. Often you would not know the price until you got the printed Pink Sheets.

From my experience, some of the trading in OSTO is still done old school where the trader has to pick up the phone and call at least a few other traders to see if there is any stock for sale/size/price, etc. This makes it iffy for someone just entering an order on an online brokerage account.

BTW, on 5/12 it was 3 trades:

3000 at .171
400 at .12
14,600 at .18
 By fredmcain

05/15/2014  5:20AM


I agree whole heartedly that something is just not quite right with the pink sheets. But I still don’t understand who would do this and why.

If a person had 4,000 shares of OSTO (OAU) why would they sell them at 18 cents and get $720 dollars when they could’ve sold them for 25 cents and fetched $1,000? I mean, doesn’t that defy logic?

Several possibilities come to mind. One is that the seller is doing some kind of a favor for the buyer through a prearranged agreement. Another possibility is that someone is manipulating the stock in order to help someone cover a “short”. (Short sellers borrow shares, not dollars, then turn around and sell them hoping to buy them back later after a price falls. But then if the stock rises instead of falling they’re in big trouble).

The third and most disturbing possibility is that someone is intentionally manipulating the stock forcing the price down because they figure they can take over our company later on the cheap. I hope not but that possibility cannot be completely dismissed. That is one problem that comes with having a very thinly traded stock like this. The stock is more vulnerable to manipulation than that of a big company on a major exchange.
I don’t know – no one knows for sure – but I have this suspicion that there are not millions, not billions but perhaps TRILLIONS of dollars of gold locked up in the quartz veins under that mountain. That may have quite possibly come to someone’s attention. If they can trash our shares then pick up the mine for a song, they will probably try.

Fred M. Cain
 By bluejay

05/14/2014  9:25PM

As a result of your experience, I would guess the pink sheet's operation is criminal. The government agencies will never prosecute as their next jobs will probably be working for the same criminals. Markets use to be honest, things have changed.

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